paul ryan and joe biden. >> that is going to be -- >> people love to say these vice presidential debates don't matter. go back to 2004, they do matter. >> i think this one does. >> and they matter because george w. bush had a very bad first debate. but you know what? dick cheney, sitting down, stemmed that tide and actually gave republicans a reason -- everybody was painting dick cheney as darth vader, as they always do. he sat down and he just absolutely demolished john edwards. it looked like there was an adult and there was a child in the room. and it actually gave the bush campaign new life. >> i think paul ryan represents, i mean, really specific ideas. >> right. >> you know? it's going to be -- >> i think it's -- and i think it's going to be great. you know, the pressure, actually, i would have never believed i would have said this 24 hours ago. it's going to be on joe biden because they can't have two bad debate performances in a row. then suddenly a one-night story becomes a narrative. right. >> it's a different ball game than four years ago. >>> still ahead, senior advisers to t